Periodic Blower (Fan only) Cycle
Answered
I have my ecobee set to run the fan a minimum of 5 minutes every hour. This really helps get 'stale' air moving and prevent odors from accumulating in any room.
This seems to be an unanticipated challenge for Flair. Regardless of my Home / Away status, I want all my vents open when the blower kicks on (without A/C or heat).
In it's current state, however, this isn't possible. When a room meets/exceeds it's setpoint or if AWAY, the vent closes, meaning the blower cannot vent that room.
Ideally, I need Flair to integrate into ecobee (and other thermostats) to watch for anytime the AC/Heat is NOT running and open all the vents.
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Official comment
Hi Everybody,
Flair is happy to announce that the Enhanced Circulation feature is now available!
Go into your thermostat settings and scroll to the Enhanced Circulation setting. You can choose from one of the following options:
- Disabled: This feature is disabled
- Vents in Active Rooms Only: Vents in Active Rooms open when the fan is running
- All Vents: Vents in all rooms open when the fan is running
We hope you enjoy this new feature and appreciate all your feedback!
All the best,
Finn
Comment actions -
The ecobee has this 'venting' option built-in - it's really not a custom option either (see item 2). Ecobee's API even allows for that to be detemined easily:
https://www.ecobee.com/home/developer/api/examples/ex4.shtml
Call:
curl -s -H 'Content-Type: text/json' -H 'Authorization: Bearer ACCESS_TOKEN'
'https://api.ecobee.com/1/thermostatSummary?json=\{"selection":\
{"selectionType":"registered","selectionMatch":"","includeEquipmentStatus":true\}\}'with the response indicating which units are running:
{
"thermostatCount": 1,
"revisionList": [
"318324666666:Main Floor:true:150212154942:150202090801:150212155501:150212154000"
],
"statusList": [
"318324666666:auxHeat1,fan"
],
"status": {
"code": 0,
"message": ""
}
}In my case, I think that having an 'OPEN ALL VENTS ON FAN ONLY' option would be sufficient. Or, an 'OPEN VENTS when NOT COOLING and NOT HEATING' would probably be more universal for other applications, like this one.
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Please add this functionality. I have my fan turn on to filter the air but the HVAC can't push the air out of the rooms with closed vents.
Also I'll run the fan on days where I'm trying to pull the warm air from upstairs into the basement, but with the vent closed, the system can't push the air out.
Ken's open vents trigger needs to be implemented. I'm going to have to return the vents and puck if they can't do this simple task.
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2 years ago we got a reply from @... that read:
Most, if not all, of our customers look for temperature-based automation, but I've passed this on to our engineering team to consider with respect to ventilation-based automation.
I think the customer base has spoken -- we believe this feature request to be significant. We've had many users suggest methods by which they'd like to see venting options implemented. I wanted to take a moment to summarize, since I see several use-cases that would need to act differently.
In short, there's a handful of unique features being requested. The first is to recognize and respond to a thermostat-driven fan-only cycle by opening some or all vents. The second is to prevent or allow natural venting. Third is to generate a fan-only cycle requested by Flair. None are mutually exclusive, and all can be used differently together.
RECIRCULATION MODES: determines how vents act during a fan-only cycle.
- OPTION 1 - RECIRCULATE ALL: During a fan-only cycle, open all vents.
- OPTION 2 - RECIRCULATE EXTREMA: During a fan-only cycle, open only vents that exceed a given temperature delta. [Requires user to input a threshold for room variance that will trigger this mode.]
DEFAULT VENT POSITION: allows Flair to change vent positions when not in use.
- OPTION 1 - DEFAULT TO CLOSED: All vents remain closed if no equipment is running. This will prevent rooms from naturally venting when not heating, cooling, or recirculating.
- OPTION 2 - DEFAULT TO OPEN: All vents remain open when no equipment is running. This allows air to naturally vent while no equipment runs, facilitating usage of additional devices such as a humidifier or dehumidifier that do not interface with the thermostat.
- OPTION 3 - NO DEFAULT: Vents neither open nor close when no equipment is running. They retain their last state.
FAN-ONLY RECIRCULATION REQUEST BY FLAIR: allows Flair to request a fan-only cycle.
- OPTION 1 - ENABLED: When a high variance occurs in room temperatures, but the average room temperature doesn't justify heating or cooling, utilize a fan-only cycle to circulate air. Flair will request a fan-only cycle, during which time your RECIRCULATION MODE setting applies. [Requires user to input a threshold for room variance that will trigger this mode.]
- OPTION 2 - DISABLED: Flair will not request any fan cycles to mix air. Your thermostat can still initiate its own periodic or manual fan cycle, during which time your RECIRCULATION MODE setting applies.
Hopefully I've summarized and captured everyone's ideas well!
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I have a two story split level house with an open central stairwell. This causes heating in the winter to all rise to the upper floor and cooling in the summer to sink to the bottom floor. I use the periodic fan function of my Ecobee to help even out the upper and lower floor temps. So I too would like to see this functionality added. In another post it was stated that this feature request is gaining traction so if votes count you have my vote for this feature. Thanks.
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Sounds like the simple “open all vents” would be the best overall solution when ecobee gives a FAN ONLY code.
Maybe add it as a check mark option in the system settings (for example):
Yes - Help balance room-to-room temperatures/humidity/air circulation by opening all Flair vents during FAN ONLY cycles.
No - Restrict air flow/humidity control to only the required rooms based on HEAT/COOL cycles only.As a little further clarification of my normal circumstance:
It’s mildly cool outside (40-50 degrees). Ecobee in Auto Heat/Cool mode with a heat setting of 70 and a cool setting of 72. No minimal fan time set. All parts of the house are active.
Current temps: 1st floor temperature is 69. 2nd floor temperature is 73. Ecobee averages to 71.
Since the average is within the set bounds, the ecobee doesn’t call for heat or a/c (but last called for heat).
So ideally from the current temps above, I would like the 1st floor to get a little Heat and the 2nd floor get cool air. But the ecobee can’t do both heat and a/c at the same time. But it can run the FAN ONLY to pull cool air to the 2nd floor and push warm air to the 1st floor just by circulating the air in the house...... if only all the vents were OPEN. The Flair system though has closed most of the 2nd floor vents since they were 73 degrees to avoid heating the 2nd floor anymore. Flair assumes the heat is still running (the last ecobee heat/cool cycle was heat and I assume it remembers that or reads something from the ecobee). So none of the cool air circulates to the 2nd floor, only the cool air blows in the 1st floor.
An hour later the ecobee still hasn’t called for a heat or cool cycle. 1st floor temperature is now still at 69 but the 2nd floor is now up to 75 (just from body heat, other home equipment, etc.). Ecobee average is now 72 which is still within its temp setting bounds. If I turn the ecobee fan on, the folks on the 1st floor start complaining about the cold fan air blowing down there while the folks on the 2nd floor are stuffy and hot with no air movement.
At this point I usually manually open the Flair vents on the 2nd floor OR change the ecobee temp setting to trigger the A/C.
Thanks for your continued support!
Kendel
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Actually this feature would be beneficial in Summer for basement:
Right now, we do not support this custom mode due to the way our backend integration works with ecobee. We do have a mode that we're testing where your Smart Vent can look at the air temperature coming from the fan and measure this against the temperature seen in the room, but that doesn't seem like something you're looking for with ventilation.
Because of AC in summer month my Flair vents in the basement are completely closed 100% of the time because the rooms are always under the set point, however when the system is in fan mode, the air in the duct is warmer than the basement temperature, and this could help prevent air in the basement from becoming stale and also push more of the cold basement air to be redistributed within the house...
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Another +1 for this feature to control the vents (or at least OPEN) the vents during a fan-only cycle with Ecobee thermostats. Like others have mentioned, the air gets stale in the rooms where the vents virtually stay closed for days (for example upstairs room in the winter).
As other's have highlighted though, my REAL request for this is to even the room temperatures as the product is supposed to do.
For example, in the last few minutes..... my downstairs room is 69 deg and my upstairs rooms are 72 & 75 (3 total sensors). I'm in the room that is 75. The ecobee thermostat is set to AUTO with heat at 70 and cool at 72. Since the average temperature of the 3 sensors is 72, the ecobee cooling feature is not coming on. Since the outside temperature is around 50 degrees, the house is relatively a stable 'average' temperature and the heating/cooling unit hasn't needed to come on in a couple hours. In this circumstance I want the fan to run to balance this temperature out.
But there's the real problem. If I turn the fan-only on (or set it to run automatically a few minutes every hour), the air only circulates in the downstairs area (where anyone there is saying it is already cool) and NO AIR circulates in the upstairs rooms since the Flair vents are all CLOSED (until the temperature drops below 72).
This puts the system in a catch 22!
This usually escalates this point and then have to manually force the upstairs vents open and run the fan. Sounds like from other comments in this post that the information is there from the ecobee API....
So if we could at least get the vents to OPEN when the HEAR/COOL function cuts off (regardless of the fan).... or even better for the Flair to see the fan is on ONLY and reverse the vents at that time. In theory it seems it would be great for the downstairs vents to CLOSE and the upstairs vents to OPEN in my circumstance described. This of course would need to reverse again once the HEAT came back on. This last scenario might be hard due to any time delays (how often) the status is checked, etc.
Thanks for listening! I really enjoy your product overall. This seems to mainly be an issue when the HEAT/COOL system isn't having to work very hard. On very cold days or very hot days, seems to really work well.
Thanks, Kendel
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Sam,
I think we all understand and can appreciate that running a fan with all vents open will typically trend towards equalizing all rooms, which might counteract any room-specific temperature settings. No one here would argue that it may be counterproductive when setting rooms at different temperatures.
Instead, users interested in the 'vents open when fan on' implementation are more likely prioritizing one of the following instead of room temperature:
- improving air quality through higher air-exchanges per hour
- regulating humidity with a whole-house humidifier or dehumidifier
- balancing hot/cool areas using the more cost-effective recirculation with a fan instead of additional A/C or heat
That said, I standby my original suggestion, which I think would suffice for all the above use-cases:
Set the Flair System to utilize the ecobee API and watch for 'Fan Only' modes. Open all vents when fan is running, but there is no call for heat or cooling.
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I like the open all vents options, I would add another option for how the vents should operate on circulation. This could be at the vent level or the entire system, having it open or close based on the supply air temp. My first floor room generally get too warm, even in winter because of the windows, and my basement too cold. The supply air is generally around 69 when circulating. Maybe using a 2 degree threshold if rooms are 2+ degrees oversetpoint and the supply air is cooler, it opens the vents, and if the room is 2+ degrees below setpoint and the air is warmer then it opens the vents. This would cool my upstairs better, heat my basement better, and keep the air in my kids room where he sleeps during the day closer to his overall warmer setpoint. If vents do not have the ability to read supply air temps, then you could sell a sensor that could or some other hardware solution. This is the sole reason I tell people to avoid Flair, everyday I have to adjust my vents because of this "automation" 69 degree air is being pumped through my house, my grand room is set to 68 degrees and the vents are shut while the room skyrockets to 74 degrees plus and my kids room get overcooled because we keep it 71 so the vent is almost always open in heat mode but when the circulation fan kicks on it cools it to a point that wakes him up. I have 19 vents, still need 2 more, 4 pucks, 1 ecobee, and 11 remote sensors. All this hardware and its still uncomfortable and temps are way off. AHHHH its been 2 years and you guys still havent done anything.
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Actually - the above functionality that compares the temperature of air at the vent and the temperature of the room would likely work for my case. If the room is below setpoint and the air coming into the vent is warmer, Flair should open the vent; if the room is above the setpoint and the air coming into the vent is colder, Flair should open the vent. Otherwise the vent should remain closed.
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I have been running the Enhanced Circulation Mode for a couple of weeks now and am happy to report that the temperature delta between the extremities of the house has dropped from ~2-2.5C to 1-1.5C, which is same or better than what we have been experiencing with manually balanced vents before installing Flair. I found the "Enable for All Vents" to be the most effective mode. Unfortunately testing this with AC will have to wait until the next season.
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Right now, we do not support this custom mode due to the way our backend integration works with ecobee. We do have a mode that we're testing where your Smart Vent can look at the air temperature coming from the fan and measure this against the temperature seen in the room, but that doesn't seem like something you're looking for with ventilation.
Most, if not all, of our customers look for temperature-based automation, but I've passed this on to our engineering team to consider with respect to ventilation-based automation.
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Another scenario that may justify some fan implementation. I'm just starting to use the product and have not received vents yet as they are back-order. But as part of my implementation, I was thinking of adding a central humidifier, tied to my Ecobee Smart. Haven't fully looked at this option yet but I would think that if there is call for humidification, Ecobee will start the fan, without necessarily be in call for heat. So regardless of the details or even implementation, I would make it +1 even if it was simply with the above scenario.
Michel
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Hi All,
A few bits of info...
Scheduling can help with temperature regulation by prioritizing Active rooms.
Scheduling rooms to Inactive will let Flair use these rooms as “dump rooms” to vent extra air for back pressure protection. And when using Flair as the Set Point Controller, Flair will remove Inactive rooms from the whole home temperature average used to determine when to adjust the smart thermostat set point. (ecobee let’s you do something similar with remote sensors and comfort settings).
You can also get creative by setting set points a little higher or lower in specific rooms to force the home average higher or lower - and bring more heat or AC to those rooms.
Also keep in mind that if Flair opens all Smart Vents each time the fan is on, that could mess with temperature regulation - especially if the fan is running each hour.
All the best,
Sam
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