Multi-storey building

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    Flair Customer Support

    Hi Vitaliy,

    Flair Smart Vents are dampers. They open and close to redirect airflow. When installed, it's like having a damper in each room. It doesn't matter how many stories you have, Flair knows when to open and close the Vents based on room temperature and the set point. For example, if upstairs is getting too warm, Flair will close off Vents upstairs to move airflow to other rooms that need it.

    All the best,

    Sonny

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    John Bartlet

    Hi Vitaly,

     

    This is a very interesting point! I've forwarded it to our engineering team to let them know about it. 

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    Dan Walker

    I'd like to second support for this.  I currently have a 3 story house in a northern climate (Michigan) which gets much colder on the lower level during the winter (and having the ability to "force" hot air to the lower levels during the winter would be appreciated.  Similarly, cold air to the upper levels during the summer would be nice as well.  It seems like Flair's algorithm isn't closing the correct vents temperature-wise for me currently.  

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    Matt

    How are both of you set up?


    I have a 2 story, plus finished basement, single zone heating/cooling system.  With Flair vents and pucks in the basement and 2 upstairs rooms.  The system doesn't really care where they are though, and I didn't integrate the heating system with the flair pucks, but set them relative to to each other independently.

    Because of layout, the basement always gets to any target temperature first.  I set the puck controlling the basement vents to the hottest I want the basement in the winter and the coolest in the summer.  The effect is, most of the time basement vents are closed, they open briefly when the temp changes and it quickly get's back into the correct range.  The heating system has its own independent sensor in the basement, so it can average in the temp when needed, just to be sure the heat comes on if needed at night when heating is at its lowest setting.

    The layout also means, two upstairs rooms get more air than the rest of the second story.  Those rooms each of a vent and puck.  Each sets the maximum hot or cool value for the room and closes once its reached.  Bonus side effect, the other second story rooms get more air once these vents close and change temp faster then.  The heating system has its own independent sensor in the upstairs room that changes temperature the slowest.  This is averaged in with the value on the first floor and basement based on schedule.

     

    This isn't exactly close or cycle lower vs upper floor vents while heating.  But, it does effectively limit the temperature of specific rooms while the main system is running.  Rooms that get to temp first, close off.  If you put a puck and vents in every room, and gave control of the heating system to Flair.  That should run the system when any room needs temp and close off the other rooms, within reason.  I think only a third of the vents can be closed at one time.  I have just under that many Flair vents installed, so they can all close.  Which also means, you need some area to be a sink that can always get heat/cooling.  In my case, the entire first floor and some of the second does that job.

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    Dan Walker

    I have a three story house, but my biggest problem is that I have 8 vents on the top level (bedrooms, bathrooms, and living space), four on the main level, and 2 in the lower level (plus a non-automated damper on the furnace for actual backflow protection).  As a result, Flair's backflow protection will never close all the upper level vents forcing air to the lower level.  I have a mixture of pucks and 

    I attempted to let Flair control my Ecobee over the weekend and lets just say that it royally unbalanced the system more than just letting the Ecobee control the setpoint on the main level.  

    I wish Flair would let us control how many dampers (and in what order) they get opened for backflow instead of being too smart for its own good.  

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    Matt

    Is that all the vents, or all the Flair vents?

    With 8+4+2=14 total vents, you'll never get more than 4 or 5 closed.  When what you really want is 8 or more closed, which would need at least 24 total vents in the system.

    In your case, I would count the backflow protection damper, I'm assuming it automatically opens under pressure, as at least 1 vent when setting the total number of vents in the system.  Since, it is a location that air can escape the system to reduce pressure.  You might (but should not listen to random internet person) count it as more than 1, since presumably it's bigger and designed for system protection.  I believe if you set a room to inactive, the system will open those vents first if it needs pressure relief.  For setting how many you want to allow closed at one time, just increase the number in the system to a multiple of 3 larger.  These are not the most flexible ways to set this, and it's lying to the system, which you risk damage on your own for.  But, it's essentially the same as controlling the number allowed closed on your own, if not the location.  Taking any system risk yourself.  I understand why they are conservative.

     

    I have 9 smart vents, out of 28 total vents throughout the house.  So, all 9 of mine can close without a problem.  When I added the last smart vents, I went around and counted them all, since I had just guessed at a 20ish when I only had 2 smart vents.  I was also replacing 7 vents that had been manually closed all summer.  Plus, opening a main trunk line cutoff that had be closed all summer, having this open and just the vents closed has worked much better.  Our house has a really poor distribution structure, but at least it has a ton of vents around the house.

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    Dan Walker

    That's all the flair vents, plus the one fixed damper.  I'd had the thought to tell the system I had 24+ vents so it allowed 8 to close if needed.  Interestingly some of them are ducted to each other rather than being unique branches off the main upstairs ductwork, which means closing several of them together wouldn't have as much impact.  I've considered permanently closing off one in the laundry room and removing that room from the system altogether (Which changes the ratios) as that one seems to get its own heat as it is (dryers are great for that sort of thing) and it's a small space). 

     

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    Vitaliy K

    @John Bartlet,

    Guys any updates on this? 

    Do you have any plans on making some kind of damper control ? 

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